Reject [Frank's suggestion] Suggestion for skills

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Bugreports' started by Melieve, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. Melieve

    Melieve The Hunter on Demand

    Hello guys!
    Frank originally submitted these suggestions via the Support Ticket a month ago. So, Lucky asked him to post it on forum suggestions, but he never made it and today he asked me to show it.
    So, here we go:


    This time I will make suggestions for several skill durations. I'll separe by class, to get more organized.

    Most of these suggestions focus on making the listed classes more independent so that they can do more than the basics to which they have been reduced over the years. Especially the Priest.
    Longer-time buffs are a special draw because they allow you to farm longer and save SP for low INT classes. In particular, again, the Priest - so that it is not just a buff / healing slave, allowing the player to do other things he likes (such as mob, lex bomb, or anything else that pleases him).

    In the case of Soul Linker, in order not to have an impact on BG it would be necessary to remove buffs before the match starts.
    For WoE it makes no difference, as the guild could simply take SL into dual-client and give buffs from time to time, the only difference would be the interval that would repeat the process.

    • Hunter Class:
    1. [​IMG] Attention Concentrate - Multiply the duration for 2,5 (150 / 200 / 250 / 300 / 350 / 400 / 450 / 500 / 550 / 600 sec)
    2. [​IMG] Wind Walk - Multiply the duration for 1,5 (195 / 240 / 285 / 330 / 375 / 420 / 465 / 510 / 555 / 600 sec)
    • Knight Class:
    1. [​IMG] Concentration - Increase the duration to 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 sec (to match Aura Blade's duration)
    2. [​IMG] Endure - Remove the 10 sec mandatory interval to recast
    3. [​IMG] Parrying - Double the duration (to match Aura Blade's duration)
    4. [​IMG] Spiral Pierce - Increase % ATK per attack to 300 / 350 / 400 / 450 / 500 % damage
    5. [​IMG] Two-Hand Quicken - Multiply the duration by 6 (to match aspd potions, like berserk potion), that means 180 / 360 / 540 / 720 / 900 / 1080 / 1260 / 1440 / 1620 / 1800 sec
    • Priest Class:
    1. [​IMG] Angelus - Doubles the duration
    2. [​IMG] Aspersio - Increase the duration to 60 / 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 sec
    3. [​IMG] Blessing - Increase the duration drastically to 900 / 1200 / 1500 / 1800 / 2100 / 2400 / 2700 / 3000 / 3300 / 3600 sec
    4. [​IMG] Increase Agility - Increase the duration drastically to 900 / 1200 / 1500 / 1800 / 2100 / 2400 / 2700 / 3000 / 3300 / 3600 sec
    5. [​IMG] Magnificat - Increase the duration to 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 / 300 sec
    6. [​IMG] Warp Portal - Remove the Blue Gemstone requirement
    • Rogue Class:
    1. [​IMG] Preserve - Duration unlimited (like Taekwon's Break Fall), and cannot be dispelled
    • Soul Linker Class:
    1. [​IMG] Alchemist Spirit - Doubles the duration
    2. [​IMG] Assassin Spirit - Doubles the duration
    3. [​IMG] Bard and Dancer Spirits - Doubles the duration
    4. [​IMG] Blacksmith Spirit - Doubles the duration
    5. [​IMG] Crusader Spirit - Doubles the duration
    6. [​IMG] Hunter Spirit - Doubles the duration
    7. [​IMG] Knight Spirit - Doubles the duration
    8. [​IMG] Monk Spirit - Doubles the duration
    9. [​IMG] Priest Spirit - Doubles the duration
    10. [​IMG] Rogue Spirit - Doubles the duration
    11. [​IMG] Sage Spirit - Doubles the duration
    12. [​IMG] Soul Linker Spirit - Doubles the duration
    13. [​IMG] Star Gladiator Spirit - Doubles the duration
    14. [​IMG] Super Novice Spirit - Doubles the duration
    15. [​IMG] Wizard Spirit - Doubles the duration
    • Wizard Class:
    1. [​IMG] Energy Coat - Doubles the duration
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  2. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    I don't know if this kind of change is desirable for most. In my opinion, RO's short buff durations is pretty annoying and making it less repetitive would be GREAT.

    With this in mind, I'm analyzing the proposed changes and making some more of my own that are in-line with the ones already suggested.

    SWORDSMAN
    Endure:
    I don't believe this should be changed, or we would have perma-Endure on cases where it shouldn't happen.

    KNIGHT
    Spiral Pierce:
    would need to be discussed. Why the need to increase damage?

    PRIEST
    Aspersio:
    if the idea is to make things consistent with similar skills, this should last up to 30min, like Endow, right?
    Warp Portal: I'm ok with blue gemstone requirement, but I would really like to have its duration increased for easier access to maps that don't have warp (like Lasagna Dungeon). If those maps get a warp inside the NPC, I don't think Warp Portal needs to be touched.
    Angelus: I think having it capped at 300s is pretty good and consistent with other skills, unless even longer buffs are desirable (I'd like that).

    ROGUE
    Preserve:
    not having it dispellable sounds like this should be discussed, but since it would impact PVP a lot more, I'll leave it for others to discuss...

    All the rest sounds OK, as in "it's just quality of life and probably wouldn't impact anything other than pressing the button less frequently".

    If these changes are desirable, then there are probably other buffs that could have their duration increased as well:

    CRUSADER
    Spear Quicken:
    whatever increase is acceptable for 2Hand Quicken should also be applied to Spear Quicken.

    PRIEST
    Gloria:
    durations x10 so it caps at 300s.
    Impositio Manus: duration x5 so it caps at 300s.

    ASSASSIN
    Enchant Poison:
    same as Endows and Aspersio (30min);
    NOT DEADLY POISON!!!!!!

    GUNSLINGER
    Increasing Accuracy:
    if duration could be 300s instead of 60s, it would feel a lot less annoying to play Gunslinger (you spend more time grabbing coins than actually enjoying the buff)
    Flip the Coin: remove chance of removing coins.... because this class is bad enough already D:

    BLACKSMITH
    Adrenaline Rush:
    durations x2 so it caps at 300s.
    Weapon Perfection: durations x6 so it caps at 300s.
    Over Thrust: duration x3 so it caps at 300s.
    Cart Boost: durations x5 so it caps at 300s.
    Maximum Over Thrust: duration x5/3 so it caps at 300s.

    SUMMONER
    Bunch of Shrimp:
    durations x5/3 so it caps at 300s.
    Arclouse Dash: durations x3 so it caps at 300s.

    Alteranatively, if you want to make all buffs last 10min (except the burst effect ones, like True Sight, Concentration, Aura Blade, Hiss, etc) it would make things a lot more comfortable. If you ask me, even 1 hour duration would be great, but I believe that would make so huge of a change most people would initially think it's bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  3. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    Frank asked me to explain his idea to change Endure, because he lacks the priviledges to reply here and he thinks his original text doesn't make it explicit the reason for this particular suggestion.

    He told me the idea to remove the 10s CD is to make it better for KNIGHTS ONLY, so that Knights get it as a better defensive option, to compensate for the fact that Paladin already is very good at defense.

    I still disagree though xD
     
  4. Leaf

    Leaf Member

    I don't think any of these changes would be good to have.

    The only thing I really want is for High Priest and Lord Knight to be able to choose which level of Assumptio and Concentration to cast, never saw those skills fixed on max level before. I'm not sure if other classes got that problem as well but I was hecking mad mildly annoyed I couln't use Assumptio level 1.

    Also why is /memo so limited, I get not able to /memo on MVP maps and around them BUT WHY CAN'T I MEMO IN GLASTHEIM HUUUUH?
     
  5. Solar

    Solar no u

    Massively agree with the sentiment of not having any these changes, especially perma-Endure, the increase to damage to Spiral Pierce (why?), and perma-Preserve (the reason why SL is strong on Rogue/Stalker is because they become undispellable, so just use an SL to buff you) I can get by this QoL change tbh but hey I love Soul Linkers.
     
  6. Lucky

    Lucky Administrator

    As you see, there are people arguing against these changes.
    If these suggestions will be implemented to the server they will be going far from the original mechanic and these changes will out of our interests too...
    I'm sorry, but your suggestions have been rejected...
     
    Lahkesis likes this.
  7. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    To be honest, I slightly agree with the changes except with the Spiral pierce. With the Official damage calculation enough to kill squishy characters already. Increasing to 500% would be an Ultra Spamming Skill Bot (with bard) to dominate the PVP/BG/WOE scene. I totally disagree with increasing this damage.

    Well, it is too late to comment on this one now as the Admin already made the decision.

    Ciao/bo
     
    Lucky likes this.
  8. SWAMP GOBLIN

    SWAMP GOBLIN Member

    Well, I doubt it'd be better than Acid Demonstration in terms of damage. Also, it has less than half the range of AD and is susceptible to defending aura. I'm not sure how much of a buff would actually be appropriate, but you have to admit that something needs to be done for knights to make them more useful in WoE.
     
  9. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    Did you reject the changes to skill durations just because Endure and Spiral Pierce weren't good ideas?? I agree they weren't good, but I'd like not having to rebuff so often... ESPECIALLY AS GUNSLINGER... RIP bad class xD

    If I made a more explanatory topic just on skill durations, is there a chance to have it implemented if people like the idea?
     
  10. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    Then there's no need to buff Lord Knight's skill then. I main Lord knight for years and the technicality and the way they were played right now is just the way it should be. They do not need to be more useful in WOE as tanking is enough role for them to dominate that area. Juicing something to be more useful is not gonna change that there are other classes can dominate that specific area.

    @Pyre The reason that it has been rejected by the Admin is that the changes are slowly stepping away from the original Ragnarok game. Not just the Lord knight's but everything that has been suggested.
     
  11. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    Lahkesis (sorry, I don't know how to tag people XD), I understand that changing things certainly make the game different from the original experience. Keep in mind, though, the only reason we're playing in this server is PRECISELY the fact that it is DIFFERENT than the original game! XD

    I believe most people are here because the rates are infinitely more comfortable, the easy access to many things through NPCs, such as stylish, hat quests, costumes, warps, basic buffs, healing, platinum skills, instant job change, among many other things, is basically what makes this server very attractive, at least in my opinion.

    It's based on this comfort and quality of life, that is not available on official rate 1 servers, that I was considering some of the changes to be good. That's also why I didn't agree with Endure and Spiral Pierce, because they're not simply making things comfortable, they're straight up modifications to the game's balance, on a class that in my opinion doesn't need them (Lord Knight).

    The idea to extend the duration of super short buffs that everyone will certainly have active 100% of the time is to just make it less repetitive to be constantly rebuffing. That's also why I believe some buffs shouldn't have increased duration, such as True Sight, because they're not meant to be cheap, for the incredibly powerful benefits.

    So, when I suggest something that expires around 180s to be extended to 300s, it's mainly to make a rebuff routine easier, in a way all buffs end at the same time. It's annoying to be farming, and every 20-30s some important buff is expiring. In the case of Lord Knight, for example, all the buffs have different durations, so it kinda sucks to kill 2 mobs, renew Aura Blade, kill 3 more, renew Concentration, kill 10 more, renew Aura Blade again, etc. If you could, for example, kill 30 mobs and THEN renew all buffs at once, it would be more comfortable, but not more powerful.

    The only exception in all suggestions I made was Gunslinger, when I asked for instant coin success, because we need to be VERY honest: that is probably the weakest class right now (save for MAYBE Super Novice). If you want to make a GS, even if it is just to have fun with the class, with your main buff lasting so little AND spending coins, you'll be flipping coins for almost one minute, then buff up, spend almost the same minute recollecting the coins, and end up wasting the little time you had in your buff. But even then, the class wouldn't be doing more damage or having more hp, or anything like that... just having access to playing the game for longer than the time spent flipping coins XD
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  12. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    I am here for the rates and easy leveling playing good ol Ragnarok, but yeah you are right thou. :foxfriend:

    Exactly, leave it the way it should be.

    That is the joys and fun when playing Ragnarok. You wanted to buzz those skills to keep them going, that is why there's the commands @go or butterfly wing to refresh and keep rebuffing.

    +1 with this, I totally agree with you on this since Gunslingers are one of the weaker classes.

    P.S. I am not here to oppose these suggestions, but whatever the majority wants always works with me. In the end, we are here to play good ol' Ragnarok game. I kinda dislike tweaking those skills thou. I think it would be better to let the Admin focus more on advertising and getting more players instead.
     
  13. Lucky

    Lucky Administrator

    That what we doing right now + working on a massive update (really a lot of fixes already applied, but still many waiting for the server restart, and something lock us to restart the server yet, but we for sure will do it a little bit later with changelog about all changes, we hope you will enjoy the update).
     
    Lahkesis likes this.
  14. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    :foxxd::boku029::boku023::boku025:
     
  15. SWAMP GOBLIN

    SWAMP GOBLIN Member

    I'm not sure how you got there from what I was saying. I was just saying that even if the damage were buffed, it'd never rival Acid Demonstration in its current state. It wouldn't come close to dominating in WoE. I'm not even necessarily saying that it should, I'm just saying that at present knights are almost completely useless in guild competition. There's almost no reason you wouldn't want to be playing another class. Knights might have a great hp bonus, but they're far from being the best tanks. Paladins are far better with their shield skills, and they have fantastic utility otherwise. That's not even getting into even better tanks you could make using a devotion paladin. There is a reason why you just about never see knights being used in WoE by guilds that know what they're doing.

    Yeah, it probably won't change that there are other classes that are better at most things but it might make them worth taking to WoE.
    Can't really see the problem that. I don't think I've ever met a RO player that thought that Gravity was actually good at balancing classes. Their balance was also much more about large guild battles - not exactly appropriate for our fights of like... 20? 25?
     
  16. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    Naahh, just leave the LK the way it is man. LK has never been that useful in WOE aside from emp breaking, might as well just leave LK from guild competition. LK's are good hunters and farmers. Try to enjoy that kind of role.

    On the second note, you can use LK in BG to annoy. They are useful in destroying barricades and emperiums. LK can tank asura as well. Forget WOE and enjoy BG instead.

    LK's never meant to exist in guild battles of large numbers. They fight monsters not players. I would leave it there.
     
  17. SWAMP GOBLIN

    SWAMP GOBLIN Member

    Is it actually fine that there's a class that is just an annoyance and nothing else? What exactly is the point of playing an annoying character when there's plenty of classes that are downright disabling, and arguably have more defensive skills to effectively be tankier?

    Survivability is not useful if you cannot perform any useful function while alive. Lks are also nowhere near as good as hunters in PvM for the most part, and hunters are actually useful in WoE.

    Forget WoE? You mean like half the reason why most people play?

    Ah yes, Lks are currently useless in WoE which means they should always be useless. That sounds like something we should never attempt to change to me.
     
  18. Lahkesis

    Lahkesis Active Member

    Really? People here play half of the reason cuz of WOE? How light is that? Maybe that is your thought of playing here in RO? Cuz me and my friends did not play "half of the reason" to play WOE. Heck, we do not even care about WOE. WOE Players tend to leave the server after 6 months compared to players who rather live within it. They "server-hop" all the time to get that competitiveness satisfaction. They do not stay that long at all! (hush, now now, don't bite me :boku015:)

    If you play for WOE, there are appropriate job roles to do that. Why not focus on that one instead of using unusual job character to win?

    LKs are the second option next to Snipers. If you like to hunt monsters aside from Snipers, LK's are the alternative and far better mid-high mobbing monsters.

    Your thoughts are more on focused on WOE, maybe don't use LK at all? just a thought. :boku033:

    If you wanted to change LKs how being played, get the right mindset of obtaining it. Not how to get that certain skill changed.

    LK's in BG and WOE are to annoy, decoy and interfere key job players. Like the barricade breaker, I always get the status to stop them from being useful in BG battle. Sleep, Chaos, Freeze, Stun, Silence and etc. Heck, you can even use that role in WOE, but I doubt your guild leader would allow it.

    Or Stun Mage characters if they are the key players during the battle. Until a champ, paladin, sinx, etc from your side of team to kill that enemy mage?

    Get bard/dancer to sleep? Perhaps silence them?

    Let Assassin and Champ silenced and sleep. Perhaps Freeze?

    Curse the paladins to make their movement slow? Stone them as they usually have no undead armor as they prefer that "Peco Card"? Seeker card is your dear, my friend.

    Snipers? Heck, if they do not use Shield, I can one-shot them by Spiral Pierce. I have +9 Hunting spear for that. If they do, try to freeze, stone or sleep them? That works all the time.

    If you wanted to make use of LK, learn to Swap armors. You know that right? You are a WOE player, I am sure you know how to swap a lot of armors, accessories, and weapons? That would not be a problem to you, right?

    LK's in BG is too far annoying next to Taekwon and Stalkers. Did you even think of them as a job role?

    Or Killing players is all you can think of?

    Do you want me to get you more how to play LK 101?:boku079:
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  19. Leaf

    Leaf Member

    I have to disagree here with the people stating Lord Knight is useless; for larger guilds/battles Lord Knights were vital to have in WoE like every other class in Ragnarok.
    They were the ones to break a defense and stand inside the enemy line spaming Bowling Bash/Brandish Spear to break their formation. Maybe they aren't the best killers yea, but they DO some damage and you have to be aware that they have the highest HP multiplicator in the game.
    If we would have more players in each guild you would see the classes no one is playing right now without a doubt. That's one of the beauties of this game. Every class has unique skills that are worthy to bring to a fight.

    The reason why Acid Bomb is such a strong skill is that you have to create the bottles yourself usually. They don't just get handed to you en masse like we have it here. A whole guild had to farm stuff back then to supply their creators for WoE. And thus Acid Bomb didn't get spammed like it does here. But since we can get our hands on unlimited bottles that would be the only skill I would be ok with a nerf. Or simply remove bombs from being purchasable in the BG shops, or limit the amount you can purchase alltogether idk. So if people want to Bomb like there's no tomorrow they should have to farm for it.

    For the extended Buff duration, I don't see how that would bring anything to the game, rebuffing yourself doesn't take that long to begin with. Have we become that lazy already?
    Also; LK already has perma Endure with Concentration btw. x)
     
  20. SWAMP GOBLIN

    SWAMP GOBLIN Member

    Because it would be more interesting to have more viable classes for WoE. Nearly every other major class in WoE is useful in some way. If they're currently not useful, that probably means you need to change up the balance somewhat.

    I am a guild leader. I would not recruit or use a Lord knight because I think that they are not sufficiently useful. You're welcome to prove me wrong if you like.

    Statusing is mostly not a very useful thing in WoE. Stun and freeze are much better inflicted by Gypsy or Bard with scream or frost joke.

    Most paladins who know what they're doing will have an evil druid card on them. Using a peco peco card isn't smart in WoE unless you can guarantee that your opponent won't use frost joke or stone curse.

    I also wouldn't take lessons on how to play from someone who thinks you could silence a bard or dancer in WoE. What kind of dummy would take a clown to WoE that didn't have 100 vit?

    My guild is effective precisely because we are good at taking advantage of support classes.

    Also, I don't entirely disagree with you Leaf, but those old days are kind of dead and gone, aren't they? I don't think we're ever going to get those numbers back, so I don't see the sense in using the balance from the days where we could rely upon numbers like that. Even then I think that most things a knight could do, another class could do better. I've seen huge guild fights between very good players. Nobody was using knights. As far as I can tell, I don't think they were missed. They might be better with higher numbers, but I still probably wouldn't have any in my guild in their current state.

    I know AD has a requirement for bombs/grenades, but as you correctly point out - that doesn't impede people here using it pretty much as often as they like. Don't get me wrong - I think it should be a good killing skill. I just don't think it should be pretty much the only single-target ranged skill people think of using. You have to admit that's less interesting, right?

    I'm not saying the idea for spiral was perfect, but clearly something needs to be done.
     
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