[Suggestion] Tuning Buffs Duration

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Bugreports' started by Pyre, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    WARNING: this topic is going to be LONG, but it is important to read all of it to get a larger picture of what the game would be like if things like these were implemented. If you only want to comment on one class, at least know that equivalent changes are being suggested for other classes. ALSO, this topic doesn't aim to ask for any changes in a hurry; I understand Lucky and the team have much work to do, especially with the huge update that is coming, so for now the idea is to discuss and polish the suggestion with other players.

    Dispel: nothing in this suggestion is stating that buffs should be undispelable. If I'm suggesting duration to be longer, but a Dispel occurs, obviously, the skill should end immediately, as normal.

    Summary of the suggestion: since many classes have various self buffs that need to be reapplied constantly, the idea is to make the game more comfortable in the sense of spending more time with useful activities and not having to stop all the time for a rebuff. The two fundamental pillars of this suggestion are (1) the change must make the class feel nicer to play and (2) the change must not make the class more powerful than it already is while fully buffed.

    Skill Names: I'm not consistently using the names used in one compilation of the game. I'm using the names I mostly remember the skills for... so if you don't know what skill it is, just look it up in irowiki and you'll know both possible names for each skill.

    Maximum Durations: whenever I'm talking about durations, it's considering the maximum level of the skill. If the skills have different durations for each level, any change suggested is primarily concerning the maximum level, but also that it should be applied proportional to every level. So, if the suggestion is to increase a Lv5 skills with a duration of 100s to 300s, it means every level would have its duration tripled... so if Lv1 lasts 20s, then the suggestion is to have that level at 60s instead.

    Constant Buffs: these are the buffs you should be aiming to have on you 100% of the time. When we make our builds in calculators, we always make them considering these skills to be active. With the exception of buffs that represent major spikes in power (such as True Sight), this suggestion is aiming to "normalize" this kind of buff. It's important to keep in mind I'm NOT saying all of these buffs should be up at the same time; sometimes, one of them is not part of a build (such as Two-Hand Quicken for Spiral Pierce Lord Knights).

    [!] If I missed some skill that you believe to be eligible for a Constant Buff, just say so and explain why.

    Comfortable Duration: in this suggestion, I'm considering the ideal duration for Constant Buffs to be 300s. This aligns with half of the duration of the basic buffs we get from NPCs, so, if we're out of the city doing PVM or PVP, we would only need to rebuff once before we lose ALL buffs and have to go back to the city.

    Even Longer Durations: actually, I think buffs could last up to 600s, to line up with the NPC buffs we currently have, but I'll leave this idea for the future, only if 300s is widely accepted.


    [​IMG] LORD KNIGHT
    Constant Buffs: Aura Blade (120s), Parry (60s), Concentration (45s), Two-Hand Quicken (300s).

    Parry (x5)
    Bringing this skill to 300s would not only make rebuffing it along with other skills easier, but also consistent with the Paladin's equivalent skill Auto Guard.

    Aura Blade (2.5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Concentration (6.66x)
    Just aiming at 300s. It's a powerful skill, but not having it up affects the class badly.

    Two-Hand Quicken (1x OR 6x)
    As this skill already has a duration of 300s, it could be left like this. The second option is to increase it to 30min to make it consistent with ASPD Potions, since this does exactly that.


    [​IMG] PALADIN
    Constant Buffs: Auto Guard (300s), Shield Reflect (300s), Resistant Souls (180s), Defending Aura (180s), Spear Quicken (300s).

    Auto Guard and Shield Reflect (1x)
    Perfect.

    Resistant Souls and Defending Aura (1.66x)
    Just aiming at 300s. Obviously, the option to recast Defending Aura to turn it off would still remain.

    Spear Quicken (1x OR 6x)
    Same as Lord Knight's Two-Hand Quicken.


    [​IMG] SNIPER
    Constant Buffs: Attention Concentrate (240s), Wind Walker (400s), True Sight (30s).

    Attention Concetrate (1.25x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Wind Walker (2.5x)
    As this is majorly a move speed buff (+5 Flee LOL), I'm suggesting it to line up with twice the desired 300s, since asking it to be reduced would be simply bad.

    True Sight (2x)
    Having to cast it just five times every 300s makes it comfortable enough for its power.


    [​IMG] CLOWN
    Constant Buffs: Attention Concentrate (240s).
    Songs: Apple of Idun (180s), Poem of Bragi (180s), Assassin Cross of Sunset (120s), A Whistle (60s).

    [!] The durations being suggested for Songs are how long the Clown keeps playing, NOT how long the buffs lasts on someone who walks into the skill's area!! Although these are not constant buffs, having the time the Clown plays line up with other classes rebuff time makes it easier for Dual Clients to do all rebuffs at once, and thus make playing both characters feel nicer.

    Attention Concentrate (1.25x)
    Same as Sniper's Attention Concentrate.

    Apple of Idun and Poem of Bragi (1.66x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Assassin Cross of Sunset (2.5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    A Whistle (5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.


    [​IMG] GYPSY
    Constant Buffs: Attention Concentrate (240s).
    Dances: Humming (60s), Service for You (180s), Fortune's Kiss (120s), Please Don't Forget Me (180s).

    [!] The durations being suggested for Dances are how long the Gypsy keeps dancing, NOT how long the buffs lasts on someone who walks into the skill's area!! Although these are not constant buffs, having the time the Gypsy dances line up with other classes rebuff time makes it easier for Dual Clients to do all rebuffs at once, and thus make playing both characters feel nicer.

    Attention Concentrate (1.25x)
    Same as Sniper's Attention Concentrate.

    Service for You and Please Don't Forget Me (1.66x)
    Just aiming at 300s. The second one, however, could be left as it is without a problem, since it's not a buff, but a debuff instead.

    Fortune's Kiss (2.5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Humming (5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.


    [​IMG] STALKER
    Constant Buffs: Preserve (600s).

    Preserve (Turn On/Off)
    Instead of having a fixed duration, turning this into a skill that can be turned on/off at will would be better, because it sucks to have the trouble to copy one skill once again, just because you forgot to recast Preserve and ended up losing it. It would work just as Break Fall (TaeKwon skill). This is not aiming to make it undispelable!


    [​IMG] ASSASSIN CROSS
    Constant Buffs: Enchant Poison (165s).

    Enchant Poison (see below)
    Instead of a multiplier, this would actually need a changing in increment, as the skill's duration is equal to 15s + 15s/Level. Since it works like an Endow effect, changing the Weapon's element, I believe it should line up with that and last up to 30min (unequipping the weapon would still end the effect prematurely). So increasing it to 15s + 119s/Level would sum up to exactly 30min (or 1800s) at maximum level.


    [​IMG] WHITESMITH
    Constant Buffs: Crazy Uproar (300s), Adrenaline Rush (150s), Power-Thrust (100s), Weapon Perfection (50s), Maximum Over Thrust (180s), Cart Boost (60s), Power Maximize (SP based).

    Crazy Uproar (1x)
    Perfect.

    Adrenaline Rush (2x OR 12x)
    Same as Lord Knight's Two-Hand Quicken, but it that one is left at 300s, this one should still get increased to double duration, aiming at 300s.

    Power-Thrust (3x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Weapon Perfection (6x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Maximum Over Thrust (1.66x)
    Just aiming at 300s, but the zeny consumption should be adjusted accordingly, increasing to 8,333 zeny to keep the cost per second roughly unchanged.

    Cart Boost (5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Power Maximize (SP based)
    Perfect.


    [​IMG] CREATOR
    Constant Buffs: Crazy Uproar (300s), Full Chemical Protection (600s), Chemical Protection: Weapon/Helm/Armor/Shield (600s).

    As we can see, this class is already perfect, as everything lines up with 300s or 600s. I'm just putting it here so people don't accuse me of hating Creators (which I do anyway). This class should actually be nerfed, but I'll leave this for another day LOL


    [​IMG] HIGH PRIEST
    Constant Buffs: Angelus (300s), Blessing (240s), Increase AGI (240s), Aspersio (180s), B.S Sacramenti (200s), Gloria (30s), Impositio Manus (60s), Magnificat (90s), Kyrie Eleison (120s), Assumptio (100s).

    Angelus (1x)
    Perfect.

    Blessing and Increase AGI (1.25x or 2.5x)
    Just aiming at 300s, but since we already have these lasting for 600s from the NPC, why not make the class that actually has these skills be as powerful with them as the NPC?

    Aspersio (10x)
    Since it works like an Endow effect, changing the Weapon's element, I believe it should line up with that and last up to 30min (unequipping the weapon would still end the effect prematurely).

    B.S Sacramenti (5x)
    This is a special case: one of the most unused skills in the game, possibly because of the need for other characters to stack together, we could actually see some use for it if it lasted as long as the NPC buffs. Someone might actually start using it if it wasn't so troublesome to keep up, so that's why I aimed at 600s instead of 300s.

    Gloria (see below)
    This is a pretty powerful buff, as it adds 30 to one stat... but it's one of the less used ones. So this duration could be extended 10x, to aim at 300s. If it's considered too powerful though, and if such a thing is possible, making it last 300s just inside the cities would be pretty comfortable for Brewers, so they don't need to get rebuffed so constantly, thus reducing the annoying chorus sfx spam LOL.

    Impositio Manus (5x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Magnificat (3.33x)
    Just aiming at 300s.

    Kyrie Eleison (2.5x)
    Just aiming at 300s, but if this is not changed, it wouldn't make much of a difference, as chances are it will still expire due to damage way before its duration is reached.

    Assumptio (1x)
    This is also one of the most powerful buffs there is. Even if it looks harmless for PVE, imagine mobs having that on them for longer than it should... For PVP, it would cause major problems in places where it's a forbidden skill. So better leave it as it is.


    [​IMG] CHAMPION
    Constant Buffs: Angelus (300s), Blessing (240s), Increase AGI (240s), Fury (180s), Summon Spirit Sphere / Zen (600s).

    Angelus (1x)
    Perfect.

    Blessing and Increase AGI (1.25x or 2.5x)
    Same as High Priest's Blessing and Increase AGI.

    Fury (1.66x)
    Probably going to end way before its duration, but just for consistency's sake, aiming at 300s.

    Summon Spirit Sphere / Zen (1x)
    Perfect.


    [​IMG] PROFESSOR
    Constant Buffs: Energy Coat (300s), Endow Blaze/Quake/Tornado/Tsunami (1800s), Hindsight (390s), Memorize (next 5 skills), Double Bolt (90s).

    Energy Coat (1x)
    Perfect.

    Endow Blaze/Quake/Tornado/Tsunami (1x)
    Perfect.

    Hindsight (Turn On/Off)
    Another of the mostly unused skills, but since one entire build (a weak one at that) is based on this, maybe it could have an eternal duration, until a different level is cast. It would work just as Break Fall (TaeKwon skil). This is not aiming to make it undispelable!

    Memorize (1x)
    Since this is based on number of skills cast, it doesn't make any sense to increase its duration. Increasing the number of spells a Professor can cast without having to rebuff Memorize would make this skill more powerful than intended.

    Double Bolt (3.33s)
    Just aiming at 300s.


    [​IMG] HIGH WIZARD
    Constant Buffs: Energy Coat (300s).

    Energy Coat (1x)
    Perfect.


    [​IMG] GUNSLINGER
    Constant Buffs: Coin Flip (600s), Increase Accuracy (60s).

    Coin Flip (remove miss chance)
    The duration is completely fine at 600s, but having to flip over and over and over makes this skill take way too long to finally get to 10 coins, and when you spend coins for other buffs that have ridiculously short durations, you'll spend most of that buff's time (or longer if you're unlucky) trying to get to 10 coins (full damage) before actually using the buff.

    Increase Accuracy (5x)
    For 4 coins, 60s is extremely unfair... but this is also aiming at 300s.


    [​IMG] SUMMONER
    Constant Buffs: Bunch of Shrimp (180s), Arclouse Dash (100s). The others are irrelevant due to server restrictions for Summoners to buff just themselves.

    Bunch of Shrimp (see below)
    Instead of a multiplier, this would actually need a changing in increment, as the skill's duration is equal to 30s + 30s/Level. So increasing it to 30s + 54s/Level would sum up to exactly 300s at maximum level. To compensate, increase the price of Shrimp from NPCs by 1.66x and decrease the drop rate of Shrimp from mobs by the same amount.

    Arclouse Dash (see below)
    Instead of a multiplier, this would actually need a changing in increment, as the skill's duration is equal to 50s + 10s/Level. So increasing it to 50s + 50s/Level would sum up to exactly 300s at maximum level.


    CLASSES I LEFT OUT:
    Why no Ninja, Star Gladiator, Soul Linker or Super Novice? Because I have NEVER played Ninja before, and I have no idea what it even looks like. Same for Star Gladiator. Soul Linker, however, I'm skipping because I didn't want to talk about it, as it's a very complex topic, as their buffs are ALL too powerful. For Super Novice, just look at all the other classes and see the buffs like Blessing or Attention Concentrate there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  2. SWAMP GOBLIN

    SWAMP GOBLIN Member

    Totally agree with the suggestion to make preserve undispellable. Utterly ridiculous that it was ever dispellable in the first place. If you've built a stalker around using a particular skill with preserve, I don't think it's reasonable to expect stalkers to have to go out of their way to get that skill back. Dispell is already debilitating enough - and yes, I know, stalker link exists. That shouldn't be a requirement for avoiding being disproportionately screwed by a 100% success rate skill that you can cast at aspd.

    Edit: Apparently I can't read. However, my point still stands. Not bad for an illiterate swamp goblin, eh?

    I think you make an excellent point about having bless / agi last as long as the NPC buffs. Really, I can't see why a player's buffs should be worse than the NPC's buffs.

    I also like the suggestion about Aspersio. It really should last as long as other endows. It's not as if it's really that much harder to get the stones for a sage endow.

    I think ninja buffs are probably fine? Ninja aura only lasts a minute, but you can't dispell it. The only thing I'd suggest is having an icon for flip tatami so I know exactly how much ranged immunity I have left. I don't know, I'm totally open to other suggestions if people feel differently.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  3. Pyre

    Pyre Active Member

    Thanks for the ideas and arguments, but just to make this clear:
    My suggestion was NOT to have Preserve undispelable!!! XD

    Just felt this had to be clearly said again, before someone reads your reply and goes "omfg, Preserve undispelable??? -1 to the whole text you took 2h to write" XD

    I just editted the first post, but didn't change anything, just fixed one typo and highlighted a couple of important things.
     
  4. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki "No" means "no", mothafucka!

    GO FOR IT!